I’m joined by JoBeth Polley, a certified grief recovery specialist who shares her own heartbreaking story and offers hope and healing for those grieving lives they didn’t choose.
⚠️ Trigger Warning:
This episode contains discussion of terminal illness, infertility, and grief.
In this raw and deeply moving episode, JoBeth Polley and I talk about the kind of grief no one prepares you for—the grief that comes with chronic illness, infertility, and lost futures. JoBeth shares her personal story of losing her husband to brain cancer and how it led her to help others through grief. We discuss how chronic illness brings its own brand of silent suffering, how to deal with guilt and spiritual doubt, and what it looks like to reconnect with hope. Whether you’re in a dark season, feeling misunderstood, or searching for God in your suffering, this episode reminds you that you’re not alone—and there’s still more to your story.
Memorable Quotes:
- There’s no funeral for lost stamina. No casseroles when you quit your job.
- You’re not faithless for feeling angry at God. You’re human. And God is big enough to handle your honesty.
- We can’t change the past, but we can hold our lives with open hands and ask, ‘What do you want to do with me now, God?’
- If you’re still here, God’s not done with you yet.
Links:
- JoBeth’s grief support resources: https://nwagriefspecialists.com
- Instagram: @nwa.grief.specialists
- Facebook: NWA Grief Specialists
- YouTube: NWA Grief Specialists Channel
- Ebooks by JoBeth https://nwagriefspecialists.com/resources/
Transcription
April Aramanda: Hey friend, welcome back to the Invisible Illness Club podcast where we talk honestly about all things life, faith, and chronic illness. Today we’re talking about the kind of grief that doesn’t get talked about enough. The invisible kind that shows up when your body changes, your life shifts, and nothing looks the way it used to. I’m joined today by Joe Beth Polley, a certified grief recovery specialist who knows firsthand what it means to grief deeply and walk others through it.
April Aramanda: She’s here to help us name what we’re feeling, hold space for our faith in the middle of it, and maybe even find some healing along the way. Job, thank you so much for being here.
JoBeth Evans: Thanks for having me.
JoBeth Evans: I’m excited to be here today and hopefully give some light and…
JoBeth Evans: hope to sometimes really dark situations. Yeah. So,…
April Aramanda: That is…
April Aramanda: what we are all about here. let’s start with a little bit about your story. So, can you share with us a bit about what you do and how your own journey with grief led you to what you’re currently doing?
JoBeth Evans: I graduated high school drama, no bad negative things in my life and u met my husband, got married and things were really good.
JoBeth Evans: we wanted to have a family and so we started trying to get pregnant and that’s when I experienced my first grief…
April Aramanda: Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: which is infertility and I think in a lot of ways it relates to what we’re talking about today it is completely different but a lot of the same connecting features as being silent it being isolating people just not knowing about it being unknown…
JoBeth Evans: because it’s not something
JoBeth Evans: you typically share. And so we went through that journey. We did not get pregnant. So it’s not one of those stories where we had this miracle baby. there was never a baby. and we ended up adopting which was just a beautiful story, beautiful experience. It was very hard and not an easy place to get to because we adopted through foster care. but we did that and We felt very complete. we bought a farm here in Arkansas and he built our home here and everything just felt really good and complete and this was about 5 years after adopting the kids and…
April Aramanda: No. No.
April Aramanda: Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: everything just felt like it was the way it should be and just really having a lot of gratitude for that and excitement and we had lots of big plans for the future even though so much had already been accomplished that we wanted
JoBeth Evans: and then about that time, about 5 years into adopting the kids, my husband got a really bad headache. And at first I was like, ” it’s probably COVID.” And so I went got a COVID test. And about halfway home, I got really scared. And it was almost like the switch had flipped and was like this is something really serious. not that CO’s not serious, but this was something it was urgent and it needed attention immediately and I was like, ” my gosh, I got to get him to the hospital.” And so I finally was able to get him up and out the door, drop the kids off at my mom’s.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Right. Completely.
JoBeth Evans: And within an hour of being at the hospital, we went to the urgent care and then across the street to the ER, they had diagnosed him with glyopblasto, which is a terminal brain cancer, and gave him 12 to 16 months to live and sent us home and told us to call back tomorrow to make an appointment with the neurologist. And so in an instance where we went from this seemingly perfect world of everything we had this future to It’s nothing.
JoBeth Evans: And I think that’s something your listeners can relate to with having this terrible news …
JoBeth Evans: because then you begin the illness. And even though I had this crazy faith I was like he will be the one who survives this. And in the process of this I’m going to get to say Look what God did for my husband. we prayed. We had people around the world praying and I was like, he’ll be the one. People be like, “It’s a miracle. How did this happen?” And …
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: we could point to our God. And I was like, ” many people are going to come to know God because they’re going to see…
April Aramanda: Right. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: what he did in Travis’s life.” And months of this went by, another month. It’s getting worse. It’s spreading. There’s no progress. Treatment’s not working. His personality changes even more.
JoBeth Evans: His personality had started to change before, but it was just a really gradual cuz it was in the front right part of his brain, which is…
JoBeth Evans: where personality is at.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: Change for the worse. All for the worst. I think we had one good doctor’s visit where she said that one of the tumors had shrunk and it was such so exciting and just things kept getting progressively worse until the point he finally passed away. And it’s a faith shaking time and…
JoBeth Evans: anybody who has experienced grief and that’s why I’m here. What people are experiencing with chronic illness is grief and we’re going to talk about naming that in a little bit but there was just so much darkness. It was a future that was not there anymore. It was dark.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: no light, no hope, no vision of what the future could look like.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: And I told myself when my husband got sick and at the point I realized he was going to die that if I could figure out how to make it through a situation like this that I would take as many women as I could along with me. And I really envision myself standing up in the light and somebody being down in this dark hole and maybe they don’t even have what it takes to reach up but I’m reaching down and pulling them up and showing them what’s here. I mean we have God and God is so good and we’re going to talk a lot about that today.
JoBeth Evans: But sometimes we need somebody here on earth to pick us up and…
JoBeth Evans: show us that there’s another chapter after this one and that we do get to write our story and that looks different for all of us but the point is that there is another chapter there is life beyond what you are experiencing and feeling when you are in that deep dark grief and that’s what I you.
April Aramanda: Yeah. …
April Aramanda: girl, I should have worn my waterproof mascara today. It’s like you’re talking about exactly what a lot of us are dealing with except ours is constant instead of one time and grief even when you lose someone is constant. It’s not I don’t mean to minimize that. Please understand me. you can come to a place…
JoBeth Evans: Good afternoon.
April Aramanda: where it’s better and life is better and you can have hope and laugh and live again and with chronic illness it can be hard to get to that place because it cycles so deeply and so often. so let’s talk about that grief that doesn’t come from death because, chronic illness brings loss of all kinds. and we’ve all kind of been through, like you said with your infertility where one minute we’re healthy and…
April Aramanda: the next day we wake up and we’re not, and so how would you describe that kind of at grief that’s different from a death in the family,…
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. …
JoBeth Evans: I think what you said was just spot on that when you experience death, there’s a finality, right? it is over.
April Aramanda: right? Closure. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: or there’s a day where this life came to an end and you had a choice to move forward or to hang out in that space or whatever. Yeah, there’s closure That relationship is that person’s life is over.
JoBeth Evans: It’s a closed door.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: And that’s what makes things like chronic illness or divorce even very tricky because the person in a divorce is still there and a chronic illness the illness is still there. And so with a chronic illness you have days of feeling good and it’s like a cruel experience, right? You have days…
April Aramanda: Right. Right.
JoBeth Evans: where you have a taste of what is good and how life could be and then the next day you experience this reality check, this is what my life is now. And I think what a lot of people grieve with chronic illness is freedom to say yes.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: So, if I was like, “Hey kid, do you want to go have lunch Saturday?” You’re in your mind you’re like, “Yeah, I’m free.”
JoBeth Evans: you look at your schedule and you’re like, “Yeah, I’m free.” But then Saturday rolls around and you can’t get out of bed or you have, XYZ, whatever it is that is preventing you from going. And so at its simplest, you’ve lost your freedom to say yes to things that you want to do in the future. And so everything’s just kind of a question mark. I also think that something else that’s different is that it is ongoing. And with those having good days and then bad days,…
JoBeth Evans: it would be similar almost to reliving a death happening over and over again.
April Aramanda: And then Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: And so it is reoccurring. It is layered and ongoing, keeps coming back up.
JoBeth Evans: And so I think that it’s really important that we call this grief,…
JoBeth Evans: what it is. And we just treat it as if that’s what it is and just go with it, if you know what I’m saying. it’s like…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: if you don’t name it and you don’t know what to do with it, but it’s like, I’m just sick. She lost her husband. These are two totally different things. And they are two totally different things, but they’re both the sadness and the emotions that are occurring…
JoBeth Evans: because of a life not lived. Basically,
April Aramanda: Yeah, I think we have a tendency,…
April Aramanda: especially before we’re bedridden or stuck in a wheelchair, that we live in what’s called a internalized abbleism. We still sometimes see oursel as able to do something and…
JoBeth Evans: Mhm.
April Aramanda: we compare ourselves to others because of that. And so we say, she just lost her husband. I just can’t get out of bed today. I’ll be fine tomorrow. And we don’t actually take that second to recognize that we’re actually dealing with grief.
April Aramanda: So, I think what you’re saying is correct. I think it’s extremely important that we recognize it as grief, that we name it that way. because otherwise, how are we going to get through it? we can’t come to a better place mentally and emotionally and even spiritually if we don’t recognize what we’re dealing with in any area of our life, but especially grief. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Yeah,…
JoBeth Evans: for I mean, it’s kind of like the first step to solving your problem is admitting you have one. it’s also recognizing what it is. And I think that it’s amazing that you’re giving a word to this and…
JoBeth Evans: giving women an option because it’s just when you get there and you don’t know what it is, there is no conclusion. There is no…
April Aramanda: Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: how do I fix this?
JoBeth Evans: And here’s the other thing is I would consider this to be a silent grief kind of infertility where it’s not really something you go around telling people and…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: and then if you do tell you’re telling people cuz you want attention or you see those people on Facebook that are can’t get out of bed again today and you don’t want to be that person right…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: but you also want people to know because you need that support and so it is an invisible loss And because it’s invisible, you lack the support and the grace that you need from your community. But really,…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Right.
JoBeth Evans: who really knows what you’re going through? If you’re married, maybe it’s a spouse. If you have children, maybe they’re aware of it. but as parents, our kids don’t even know what we do.
JoBeth Evans: I just saw a thing where one of the moms that I’m friends with on Facebook, it was a Mother’s Day thing and her kids in elementary. It’s like what does your mom do? And she’s nothing. And she got fired and the lady didn’t get fired and it was like what does your mom do during the day? and she put cleans the house and watches TV. And this lady works 40 hours a week. the kids don’t have a clue. So even if you’re have kids in the house they may not even know but you need the support. And that’s another huge difference between a death. when somebody dies, it’s this tragedy. Here’s a casserole. here’s groceries. Here’s a card. I’m going to come support you and listen to you and love you and…
JoBeth Evans: I’m going to pray for you.” And I think a lot of times people with chronic illness, it looks kind of like they’re just being babies. Can I say that? It just looks like you’re just not being tough enough. just that’s life. We all don’t feel good and…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yes.
April Aramanda: Right. This is…
JoBeth Evans: that’s not…
April Aramanda: why this community …
JoBeth Evans: what it is.
April Aramanda: exactly. This is why this community is so important because what happens is we post online and we post about the good and the bad because it’s important to have that community.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Right.
April Aramanda: Then we get all kinds of comments about, you’re just being a baby, you’re just whining, you’re fine, you can walk, you don’t need, and all of that feeds into that invisible grief that you’re talking about where we’re like, I can’t tell anybody anything now then. And, you were also talking about our spouses and our kids don’t know what’s going on. I can tell you my husband the most supportive man I’ve ever had in my entire life, but there’s no way he can fully comprehend what I’m dealing with. And so community in this aspect is so important as well.
April Aramanda: But also, what kind of care or compassion do you think that people need when they’re grieving something that never really ends? what can other people do for us? What can we do for ourselves?
JoBeth Evans: So I think I would start with …
JoBeth Evans: what you would do for yourself. So, I think it’s really important that we do take care of ourselves first. And I think that if you grew up in the church, that’s kind of frowned upon.
April Aramanda: Here it is.
JoBeth Evans: You are supposed to take care of others and you put yourself last. And I think that’s beautiful and…
JoBeth Evans: I love seeing that come to be in people’s lives.
JoBeth Evans: But what I think we don’t realize as grievers or people with chronic illness is that if you don’t put yourself first then you really can’t show up in the world like you want to. And so yeah, what are you doing to take care of yourself?
April Aramanda: Yeah. Can’t pour from an empty cup.
JoBeth Evans: And we’re going to talk, about doing grief work, but there’s the mental side of it, but as each person knows in their own individual experience, there’s a physical side of it, too, where I know that if I say I’m going to go to the ball game, to the dance recital, to the family event and out to dinner with my husband this week, I know at some point I’m going to crash and I’m going to be down for a week. is that taking care of yourself? Is that something you need to do?
April Aramanda: Right. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: So, I think I am of the belief that we all know what’s best for us.
JoBeth Evans: I think we like to pretend that we don’t because confusion often feels better than reality. So, if we can be like, I just don’t know what to do, I don’t buy into that. I think you do. And so, especially when you have illness, unless it’s really new and you’re still trying to figure it out,…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yes.
April Aramanda: Right. Right.
JoBeth Evans: there’s that. But, I think what’s best for you. I think or have some kind of idea of where your threshold is at and you can hopefully plan your life according to where your limits are at. and then I think also having a huge amount of grace with yourself and understanding that this is not something that you inflicted upon yourself.
April Aramanda: Right. No,…
JoBeth Evans: This is not something that you had no part in being a victim if you will.
JoBeth Evans: I don’t ever want anybody being in the victim mentality. we can discuss that.
April Aramanda: we don’t want to be either.
JoBeth Evans: But I like to say you were a victim of something but you can choose victory in that. you don’t have to be stuck in that.
April Aramanda: Yes. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: We can’t avoid what happened to us. I was a victim of a lot of trauma with my husband passing and stuff but I choose not to live there. So having a lot of grace with yourself, a lot of understanding, but also doing things to progressively move you forward because in that you build a lot of self-esteem and confidence. And that’s what we need to do is learn to walk in confidence no matter where we’re at. As far as other people, I think this is hard…
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: because people don’t understand.
JoBeth Evans: And so if somebody doesn’t understand, they’re really limited in their capacity to show up and love well and…
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: support And I have found in my life that it’s really amazing to have a couple good friends. And hopefully everybody can find that and you’ve got this group that provides that. but I think a lot of times when we get hurt is when we keep going back to the same people or love and support that don’t know…
April Aramanda: Yes. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: how to provide it, who don’t understand, who think you’re just, putting on or, being a baby or whatever people think or…
JoBeth Evans: And so I think it’s important that we find those people your husband who can say “I don’t understand what you’re going through,…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: but I can love you and support you.”
JoBeth Evans: And we want people in our lives that can accept you for however you are that day. but I think it takes somebody with a lot of patience and a lot of grace and somebody who is emotionally very mature and cannot make it about them.
JoBeth Evans: So if you’re like I can’t come to lunch today, it doesn’t mean anything about them and you’re not mad at me. you never can come to there’s not this immaturity that we see in a lot of relationships. there’s a maturity and an understanding that I love you and I’m here to be with you when you’re able to and I understand when you’re not. And I think these people are very few and far between and we’re lucky when we find them, but I think that there’s probably one or two people out there for all of us that we can just really lean into. and at the end of the day, just showing up with love for that person.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: If you’ve got somebody in your life that is chronically ill, understand that you don’t Get a grip on that. you don’t understand and…
April Aramanda: Yeah, it’s okay.
April Aramanda: Yeah. …
JoBeth Evans: it’s okay. I don’t want you to understand but
April Aramanda: I would not wish this on anyone. I don’t want anyone to understand fully how this feels to live like this. I think it’s so important that for those that are very close to us that we try to come up with ways to discuss it with them in a way that they could understand I know people who have spouses even who are not willing to give any room for it. And I feel horrible about that. And at some point in the future, we’ll be doing an episode about that because I think it’s important to figure out how to still love that person and how to still deal or if you have to move on, that kind of a thing. But a lot of …
April Aramanda: what we’re talking about here also, plays into the question of guilt because we do feel guilty for grieving. You lost a husband.
JoBeth Evans: Right. Right.
April Aramanda: We understand that kind of But grieving when you’re living with a chronic illness or I think you’ve said you’ve had patients with cancer before, things like that.
JoBeth Evans: Mhm. Right.
April Aramanda: Grieving like that is different. And so we think, I should just be grateful that at least I don’t have cancer, Or that other people have it worse or whatever the case is. what would you say to someone that’s feeling that kind of guilt and shame just trying to deal with their own grief?
JoBeth Evans: First I’ll say that that thought process has a name and it’s called intellectually true statements that are emotionally unhel unhelpful.
April Aramanda: Love it.
JoBeth Evans: So, it is true that you’re not like there are things out there worse than what you have. That’s true for everybody. No matter what you’re going through,…
JoBeth Evans: somebody has it worse. And so, we don’t want to go there. And I think that when we’re in situations like this, we really have to work on having control of our minds and what we’re thinking. So, we’re headed down the right path. but we don’t want to compare grief. So, no comparing grief. and also understanding that you can have two conflicting emotions at the same time. Okay, which is weird feeling.
April Aramanda: Right. Yes.
April Aramanda: This can be true. It is weird. yes,…
JoBeth Evans: Especially the best example of this that I have is when my sister and I plan on getting pregnant at the same time. We were going to have kids together. She gets pregnant the same week I find out we are not going to be able to have kids. It was a hard you can try stuff but it’s probably not going to happen.
JoBeth Evans: And I felt so much excitement cuz I was like getting a little nephew or niece, whatever it was going to, I didn’t know the time. I was like, “This is going to be the coolest experience of my life.
April Aramanda: right.
JoBeth Evans: I cannot wait. There’s a baby coming.” I was just over the moon. And at the same time, I was so sad for me.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: I cried and I cried and I cried and I think my husband didn’t fully understand and he was just didn’t know what to do with it which I think is kind of sometimes typical. but I was like this is so weird. Felt didn’t know what to do with it.
JoBeth Evans: But I think it’s okay for you to be like, I can be really really sad about this situation and…
JoBeth Evans: I can grieve it fully. And I think that there has to be a balance between feeling your feelings and pushing through. And I think just with, my experience and what I say to my clients, I want to be when we work together, I’m saying for an hour and a half this week, I want you to dive all into this work. I want you to get as sad as you can get all in emotionally.
April Aramanda: Yes. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: Then I want you to close and walk away from it. Go put some different music on. go do something that’s going to lift your spirits back up because we need to go there, but we don’t need to live there.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: And so don’t hang out there too long because then we get into things like depression and losing our desire to live and things like that that we want to try to avoid. And I think that’s part of it is like finding that balance.
JoBeth Evans: But having guilt is a thought we don’t want to entertain. And I really want to encourage everybody that be very aware of what you’re thinking because it is so important if you’re like, ” of course Of course I’m sick on a day that I was supposed to be doing something. This is just my life now. It sucks so bad. I don’t even know what did I do to deserve this?” …
April Aramanda: Mhm. Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: we go down these rabbit holes of just this negative trash. in our head and then we’re like, I wonder why I feel bad all the time. what are you thinking? And I’m not saying to lie about or diminish or anything. You can acknowledge it. I’m sick today. I missed out on something that was really bad. I feel very upset about that. I feel sad. I feel discouraged. but I’m going to whatever it is that you need to do. I’m going to rest. I’m going to go just for a walk.
JoBeth Evans: I’m going to go get a massage or, take my medicine and eat something and, make the most of what I have right now. This is a complicated situation. It’s complicated. And once again, I go back to what you need to do. And if you know what you need to do for yourself and you’re really paying attention to what you’re letting take up space in your brain,…
JoBeth Evans: I think you’re going to make huge progress. And sometimes knowing what to do for yourself is knowing that you need to be in therapy, maybe you need a coach, you need to explore this, maybe you need to take a course or something online or…
April Aramanda: Yeah, it’s true.
JoBeth Evans: you need to dive deeper into the word and start making sense of it for yourself.
JoBeth Evans: I think that’s all really important.
April Aramanda: It is so very easy for people in general, but especially when you’re living with something that will never go away and it will never change and it might get worse depending on what it is you’re living with. It is so very easy to hit that spiral and to just keep spiraling and…
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Mhm.
April Aramanda: keep spiraling. On my very worst days, I will be curled in a ball in my bed in tears and my brain is trying to tell me all these horrible lies. You’re never going to get up out of this bed. You’re never going to be able to have the life you want. You’re never never. And I hit a point at one month, several months ago, I hit this point where I mean, I just spiraled so bad. I haven’t spiraled like that since I was dealing with depression 20some years ago.
JoBeth Evans: Mhm. Yeah.
April Aramanda: And I was spiraling so bad I scared my husband. I wasn’t in the place of thinking about leaving this world or, any of that, but I was in a very dark place that day. And I was trying to just rest in the bed. And the problem is that I kept spinning. So, I got myself up and I went to the living room and I collapsed on the couch there because, I can’t move much that day. I’m in a bad spot physically. And for me one of the things that helps me get out of my head so that I can start thinking better is to play a video game. So I put on a video game and I started playing that and within about 20 30 minutes my brain started going this is dumb. You don’t spiral like this anymore. What are you doing? who do you think God made you to be?
April Aramanda: Not that and I was able to kind of pull myself out. So, I like the advice of, if you need to Go for a walk. Do something that brings you joy to get your head out of that space so that you can start thinking better because it’s so easy to spiral with this.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah, for sure.
JoBeth Evans: And do those thoughts when we’re spiraling where do those thoughts come from?
April Aramanda: Yeah. No.
JoBeth Evans: And you can call it the devil, the enemy, whatever, but it’s not God.
JoBeth Evans: You can call it whatever you want, but God doesn’t speak doom and gloom over our lives. And I think once again, if we can just be “Stop.” when that first thought comes to your head that’s negative and demeaning and just death over your life.
April Aramanda: Yeah, right.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yeah,…
JoBeth Evans: you have to tell that thought where to go and it’s a way one of the coolest practices I’ve ever done and…
April Aramanda: I agree.
JoBeth Evans: there was a situation that happened with some people in my life that hurt me and…
JoBeth Evans: they said some really ugly things about me and I think this applies okay so I called my spiritual friend and I was in a
JoBeth Evans: just heartbroken. My husband was in hospice at the time, so it was a really, really bad timing. And she had me write down the things people had said and the things that I thought people thought about me that maybe they thought or didn’t think. Okay, what I thought.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm.
April Aramanda: Right. Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: And so we went through and we made a column. We made a list of all the things that were said and believed to be true about me.
JoBeth Evans: And then we put, scripture to it and we put affirmation to it. And I will never forget, she was like, “Okay, we’re gonna write this down and we’re going to say that this is a lie from the pits of hell. That is where that’s coming from. This is not coming from God.
JoBeth Evans: This is not speaking truth in life.” And this is, but we did that. And I would love for your listeners if you get in that spot where you’re spiraling, write those things down.
April Aramanda: Yes. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: What are you talking about? we don’t want to write down too much about the bad things, but I’m never going to be okay. Let’s just take that. I’m never going to be okay. the truth is that you are going to be okay. you’re going to be okay. You’re having a rough day, but there’s going to be better days ahead. Then can we find scripture for that? And then after we find scripture for that,…
April Aramanda: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: then we turn it into an affirmation. Does God say that? No. And so it almost is debunking it and then casting it away. it’s not even something I’m going to think again.
JoBeth Evans: And once you do that, you start thinking when those thoughts come into your head, you’re like, “Wo, that is not something that’s going to take up space in my mind.” And so I think it’s a really great activity to do.
April Aramanda: Yeah. …
JoBeth Evans: Because I mean everything starts in our head.
JoBeth Evans: So if we can get control there, everything else is going to be better.
April Aramanda: I just thought in my head that’s the chronic illness version of the mythbusters, We’re gonna bust the myth of…
JoBeth Evans: Yeah, absolutely.
April Aramanda: what we’re being told in our head or what we’re telling ourselves or even what someone spoke over us. We’re going to bust that myth and then we’re going to prove that that’s not true and we’re going to come up with the affirmation to do that. I love that.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Mhm.
April Aramanda: But let’s talk about another part of this with faith then because we’re discussing faith and God and what about holding grief and faith especially when you’re angry at God because I imagine in your situation and I know in a lot of people’s situation like mine and even me at the beginning of it I was angry because I had these plans for my life and…
JoBeth Evans: Yeah.
April Aramanda:
April Aramanda: I was going to be this great grandmother mother all on the ground and running around, right? And now I’ve got to be a little slower and a little more cautious. And so at first when something happens, we’re very, very angry. And sometimes we don’t even realize we’re angry, but we’re very angry. And that can come out at anger at God for letting this happen. God, why did you let me get sick? Why did you let me, not be able to go to my brother’s graduation tomorrow or whatever the case is? How do we hold all this together and…
April Aramanda: still hold on to our faith in all of this when we’re angry at God? Yes.
JoBeth Evans: For starters I think that God’s able to handle any emotion that we have.
JoBeth Evans: So I think it’s very important that when we are angry and…
JoBeth Evans: we’re in situations where we are having negative emotion towards God that we keep showing up, we keep coming back to…
April Aramanda: Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: where he is. What does that sound like? it could be a rant, it could be that why is my life like this? Why did you do it could also sound like nothing.
JoBeth Evans: just you meeting God…
JoBeth Evans: where you’re at and saying, I’m here.” And I feel this way. Or maybe you don’t even do that. Maybe you just sit in the presence with God. I have kind of strong opinions about asking why. Because here’s the thing. Possibly God speaks to us and tells us maybe he reveals that to us,…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: but if you’re hung up in that, if you’re ruminating in why and…
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: it’s leading to anger, it’s leading to resentment, it’s keeping you at a distance from God, we don’t want to go there. So, even if you know why, does it change your situation? No, it doesn’t.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: So it’s like…
JoBeth Evans: why would you allow yourself to get in that hamster wheel of running the same question through and through is it hurting you or helping you emotionally? Probably ing Is it hurting or helping you spiritually? And if you knew the answer, what would it change? Absolutely nothing. So I think that the better question is asking God what can I make of this? I wasn’t going to bring my husband back. I think there was a while where I thought my faith might save him. I thought that…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: if I found the right doctors, he would be saved. but at the end of the day, it was never in my hands ever, even though it felt like it was. And so, I love that we can meet God in this place. I mean, we can’t really talk about this without talking about Job.
JoBeth Evans: Talk listen,…
April Aramanda: Yes. Right.
JoBeth Evans: if we want to compare grief, I kept reading Job when Travis was sick and I was like, I need to know if I’m Job or if he’s Job because if he’s Job, then we’re going to be okay. If I’m Job, I don’t know that we’re going to be okay. I don’t know if he’s the one that’s going to pass away or I’m the one that’s going through all these losses. Anyways, not the point. but anyways, I think that when we’re in these deep moments and we are maybe starting to feel like we need to pull away a little bit, I think that it is our opportunity to lean in so hard to God and who he is and inviting him into that space.
JoBeth Evans: They told us when we were doing training to be foster parents that when we feel like we want to pull away from our kids, that was the moment we needed to lean in the hardest.
April Aramanda: Mhm. …
April Aramanda: I love that.
JoBeth Evans: And that is true with our relationship with Christ. When we feel like we want to back away, we need to show up.
JoBeth Evans: And like I said, Sometimes it’s just like, I’m here. I got nothing to say. I felt that after my husband died. I’m here. I got nothing. logically I know that I’m thankful for a lot of things but I can’t say it because so much has been taken. No, it’s like I have this house, my kids are healthy, I have a farm, we’re okay financially, I have so much support,…
April Aramanda: You probably couldn’t have even processed it in that moment. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: but it was just like I can’t even thank you for that right now because I’m so broken. And so I think that when we have deep grief and we’re in moments like this, we have the most beautiful opportunity to
JoBeth Evans: meet with God and to know him at the most intimate level possible. And even though I will always hate that I lost my husband, it will always be sad for me. I will always have preferred for him to stay here,…
April Aramanda: Yes. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: I will always be thankful for the opportunity that my grief and my sadness and my sorrow, how much that brought me closer to God. It allows you to connect on a level that you’ve never connected before.
April Aramanda: Yes. There.
JoBeth Evans: So if you’re going through deep grief and you’re not taking that advantage, you’re just missing a huge opportunity. And who knows our suffering? God. Who else?
JoBeth Evans: Who else do you have that understands? Nobody.
JoBeth Evans: Because just my husband’s different from somebody losing their child, like your grief with your chronic illness is different than the grief somebody else is experiencing with their chronic illness. So, we can’t compare. But the relationship we get to have with him, don’t overlook that. there’s a scripture from Job that I’m trying to think. I it basically said up…
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yes. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: until now I’ve heard of you but now I see We want that.
April Aramanda: Wow.
April Aramanda: I gotta find that while we’re talking.
JoBeth Evans: I hope you find it.
April Aramanda: That’s great. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: Hope you find it. but that’s what we want, I’ve heard of this connection with God. I’ve heard of this relationship.
JoBeth Evans: But now I see I feel It’s a part of me. And I want that. if we’re in these terrible situations, what more beautiful thing can we hope for? We can’t change what’s happening. We can’t change the past. I hope you find that verse that
April Aramanda: It’s Job 42:5 and depending on the version you look at I’m going to go with NLT for right actually no I’m going to go with English Standard for right now. I have them all listed out here. I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear…
April Aramanda: but now my eyes see or if you go with NLT. I had only heard about you before, but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
JoBeth Evans: I love that so much.
April Aramanda: It’s beautiful. and while we’re listing scriptures and you had mentioned to me two other scriptures about grief and sorrow, question number seven, that I would love for you to share with us. yeah.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. I think the ones that I talked about connect just beautifully with this. It says, “Blessed are those that mourn, for they shall be comforted.” who’s comforting us? who…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Right. Right.
JoBeth Evans: who is there? And gosh, but what two words are so contradictory? Bless and mourn.
JoBeth Evans: If you’re mourning, you’re not feeling blessed. But God promises us that if we are grieving,…
JoBeth Evans: if we’re mourning, we are blessed. And why are we blessed? Because we get to see his face…
April Aramanda: Yes. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: if we seek him. And that’s the thing. If you’re avoiding, I think there are times when God just really intervenes. But I also think that he’s waiting for us to be like, “Here am I like, What do you want from me?” lay yourself at the feet of Jesus.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: I’m here. do what you want with my Hold your life with o open hands. I think a lot of times when we’re grieving, it’s because we are clinging so tightly to what we thought we wanted, what we thought life was going to be like.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: And when we can open our hands and say, “My life is yours. What do you want?”
JoBeth Evans: I think that’s when really beautiful things get created. I don’t know I was thinking leading up to this …
April Aramanda:
April Aramanda: And I have Right.
JoBeth Evans: what are some possibilities when we hold our life with open hands and somebody with chronic illness and I was thinking about your podcasting’s cool because if you feel really good, you could totally batch for a whole month and if you right cuz you’re smart. So you’re like, man, I’m feeling it today, so I’m going to do that. where is it going to be in a nonprofit? Is it going to be you showing up as a mentor and…
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: love and light for somebody who’s going through this? is your presence going to give somebody the encouragement to live another day? I don’t know obviously what that is for each person, but I promise you there’s something there. you’re not just meant to exist.
April Aramanda: Yes. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: you’re es especially as Christians we have a calling on our life and that is to love others to love Jesus and to share the good news it doesn’t say share the bad news we’re sharing the good news and…
April Aramanda: Yes. Right. Yeah. Right.
JoBeth Evans: obviously that’s talking about the gospel and a life in Christ but I think that there is a big calling on our life and that there’s so much purpose that we have and when you’re caught up in the hamster wheel of negativity and poor me and victimhood and nobody understands God understands and at the end of the day it is you and God and so enough people understand for you to move forward with your
April Aramanda: So for someone that is stuck in this spiral and that is having a difficult time most of the time pulling themselves out of this, what are some first steps that they can do toward healing and kind of overcoming some of this stuff?
JoBeth Evans: So, I use the grief recovery method.
JoBeth Evans: That’s what I use with people because I think there’s so much noise on the internet. So you know that whatever you’re googling,…
JoBeth Evans: you can s go through your Facebook and you’re going to see what kind of ads are popping up.
April Aramanda: Right. Right.
JoBeth Evans: And so there’s one person after another person who are promising results, who are promising healing, who are promising whatever outcome you’re googling, and so I like to use the grief recovery method because it’s a scientifically proven way to make you feel better. I’m not saying it’s going to make you like this, firecracker.
JoBeth Evans: I’m telling you,…
JoBeth Evans: it’s going to make you feel better. And that’s what we want when we’re in a really dark place is I want to feel better. I want to feel okay. And that’s really my first goal is to get somebody from feeling like what is life? There is no life like I have no future to I feel okay today. that’s…
April Aramanda: All right.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: in 8 weeks where I get people like that’s what I do. and a huge part of that is understanding grief. What is grief?
JoBeth Evans: And then you start to realize that’s part of naming it is, okay, so I’ve actually lost a future. I’ve lost my health. I probably have lost friendships. I have lost,…
April Aramanda: Right. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: those suckers start racking up all the losses and we get to see them and acknowledge them and then we get to see how you’re handling them and then we put words to it and…
April Aramanda: Right. Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: we start to heal what has felt really incomplete. And that’s your first step.
JoBeth Evans: I’m always gonna suggest using a coach or a therapist to get where you want to go. It’s like expediting your situation because go to somebody who knows what they’re doing. Pay them to get you out of this situation as quick as possible because you get better, the sooner you can start having a bigger impact in the lives of others or in your career. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of careers go down the sink…
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: because me maybe physically they can’t but also maybe mentally they can’t. So …
JoBeth Evans: how much is it really costing you being stuck in this grief? And so spend some money over the course of 8 weeks to get to where you want to go. It’s a no-brainer for me. that’s definitely where I would start. And that’s what I did.
April Aramanda: Yeah. What?
JoBeth Evans: I went to my therapist three months before my husband died and was like, “Okay, he’s dying.” I’ve never done this before and never lost a husband while raising two kids and potentially running construction company and a farm and…
April Aramanda: Right? Because you can’t just shut down.
JoBeth Evans: No, it was No.
April Aramanda: You’re raising kids and you’re running a company. You have to keep going.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. what’s worse than Losing your dad and your mom not being able to function anymore.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Exactly.
JoBeth Evans: that wasn’t an option for me.
JoBeth Evans: And so the cost of not getting better was higher than the cost of me staying where I was at. And so that’s something we really have to look at is how much does it really costing me? Cuz you look at therapy and you’re like, I can’t afford $100 an hour really.
April Aramanda: Right. Right.
JoBeth Evans: What’s it costing you laying in bed all day? Because you mentally can’t get to where you want to be.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: We’re not talking about physically. I can’t help you physically.
April Aramanda: If you got to lay in bed physically, then lay in bed physically.
April Aramanda: But we’re talking about mentally.
JoBeth Evans: Right? If you mentally cannot get out of bed,…
JoBeth Evans: what is the cost there? A full day’s work.
April Aramanda: And I can attest that it can be done on your own, but I will tell you it takes a very long time.
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Yeah.
April Aramanda: Yes.
JoBeth Evans: That’s why I said expedite it. And two, some people are just like, I want to do it myself. And that’s fine. I just don’t recommend it.
April Aramanda: No, I don’t either.
April Aramanda: Took me a lot of years to get here. God has been gracious. what encouragement would you offer to someone in the thick of all this invisible loss when the world doesn’t see what they’re carrying and they can’t really tell a whole lot of people what they’re carrying?
JoBeth Evans: I think I’m going to keep going back to that we have to get to a place spiritually…
JoBeth Evans: where we are deeply connected with God. There is not answers in this world.
JoBeth Evans: There is not comfort in this world.
April Aramanda: Yes. Mhm. Right.
JoBeth Evans: People are great sometimes and they’re really not great sometimes. And so we can’t put our life and our happiness and our hope in the hands of somebody else, but we can put that in the hands of God because he is the creator of all that. He ultimately can create pathways in your life that you haven’t even imagined that are going to bring you joy.
JoBeth Evans: But knowing that you’re not alone and that’s what you have done is been like okay you felt alone and it is such an isolating grief that people are suffering silently. I would say a lot of your listeners are suffering silently. They probably haven’t you have a Facebook group right? Okay.
April Aramanda: Yes. …
April Aramanda: I will be shortly.
JoBeth Evans: So the Facebook group is going to kind of exploit the population and…
April Aramanda: Yes. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: be like okay here we are like and we want to show up and support each other. But even just listening to this podcast you need to know that you’re not alone in your Suffering is unfortunately a part of the human experience. So you’re just being human. But also lean into those places where you can feel less alone. And that’s going to be the Facebook group that you’re creating.
JoBeth Evans: It is this podcast. even, commenting or leaving a review or something that’s going to let other people know that they’re not alone, really leaning into that. and just realizing too that because suffering is part of our human experience that it’s something we can embrace and recognize it for what it is.
April Aramanda: Mhm. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: and just move forward every day. Because when we decide to stay stuck, to stay in confusion, don’t allow yourself to be confused anymore.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
JoBeth Evans: Don’t say, I just don’t know.” It’s a copout. what you need to do. You don’t understand why you’re sick or why you can’t get out of bed or why any of those things, but you do have control over your life.
JoBeth Evans: And so I want you to really take power and control over what you can control. And when this thing that’s happening starts to shake your theology like it is I just think about these doors that are opening with this bright light shining through.
April Aramanda: Yes. Mhm.
April Aramanda: Yes. Yes.
JoBeth Evans: It’s okay for your theology to take advantage of it. If you can’t get out of bed,…
April Aramanda: Yeah. He’s one of my best friends.
JoBeth Evans: read your Bible. Dig. Gosh.
JoBeth Evans: chat GPT use it for everything be like I know so they program to say what you want them to say and…
April Aramanda: Yeah. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: so my chat somebody was chat GPT is atheist and I was like what have you been typing into your thing because my chat GPT is a Christian…
April Aramanda:
April Aramanda: Yeah. I call my chat GPT Chad.
JoBeth Evans: but Hey,…
April Aramanda: And Chad is a Christian and Chad is he follows my faith.
JoBeth Evans: yeah, you got to check Chad though. Chad told me something the other day that I was like,…
April Aramanda: I know. No, you do.
JoBeth Evans: that is not right.
April Aramanda: But Mhm.
JoBeth Evans: But it’s a great place to go and be like, “Okay, tell me what does the Bible say about my suffering? What does the Bible say about healing, positive outlook? what does it say?” And it’s going to give you the scriptures. It just prevents you from having to dig.
April Aramanda: Right. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: Saves you time.
JoBeth Evans: And then you just have all of it there and you’re like, “Okay, from there I can really dig and I can really find about what God says about my life and what he has planned for me.” but keep moving forward. You’re still here.
April Aramanda: Yeah. Not done with me yet.
JoBeth Evans: And I post all the time, but if you’re still here, God’s not, finished. And yeah, and so, you’ve got a calling on your life. You have purpose. It’s like you may not know…
JoBeth Evans: what it is, but you may have to get to a place where you’re healthy enough mentally to really see what that is.
April Aramanda: Yeah. …
April Aramanda: I so agree with all of that. I have an episode coming up. I’ll probably edit that part out because it’ll probably be after I post this, but I have an episode about…
JoBeth Evans: Yeah. Yeah.
April Aramanda: what I’m learning about my faith and about God in the process of chronic illness. And I’ve been a believer since I was 10 years old. I grew up in the church. It’s something that, I have always held strong to, but over the years, things have happened and I didn’t realize just how much I was not talking to God about or wrestling with him on or what grief I actually had that I needed to name. I mean, all those things.
April Aramanda: And as I’ve been dealing with this chronic illness, God has really been drawing me in because I’m willing to do the work.
April Aramanda: And I think a lot of times we are so tired anyway that we’re not willing to put in more work.
JoBeth Evans: Mhm. Yeah.
April Aramanda: But the thing that what we think about is what our life is going to look like. And so if we continue to think about all the negative things and we don’t put in the work to contradict those, we’re going to end up in that place.
JoBeth Evans: Mhm. Yeah.
April Aramanda: This has been such an amazing conversation. I love all the little tidbits that you’ve given us and the things that we can do. So, if someone that is listening wants to connect with you or wants to work with you, where can they find you?
JoBeth Evans: So, I’m Northwest Arkansas, cuz that’s where I’m located.
JoBeth Evans: NWA grief specialists and that’s my website and…
JoBeth Evans: I’m on Tik Tok, Instagram and on Facebook I’m also Joe Beth Pauly and you can reach out to me there. I like to offer a 15 to 30 minute consultation with people because I think that people call them clarity calls but that’s exactly what they are is a clarity call. because I realize that I’m a great option. Okay, I’m not gonna diminish…
April Aramanda: Okay. Yeah.
JoBeth Evans: what I do because it’s powerful work, but sometimes people need other things. you might need to go to rehab, you might have an addiction that’s holding you back,…
April Aramanda: Yes.
JoBeth Evans: or you might need therapy because of the complexity of your situation or maybe your financial situation.
JoBeth Evans: There’s so many different options, but I think a really great step that we can take is just taking the opportunity to take a step forward. …
JoBeth Evans: be like, I’m going to make a call. May not listen to anything she has to say, but I’m going to call and, get a 30,000 foot view of what I’m dealing with from somebody…
April Aramanda: That’s awesome.
JoBeth Evans: who doesn’t know me and doesn’t see me every day. And so, I think that’s really a really powerful option for people to just take that first step. But, reach out to me. I Love helping people. And so, reach out and we’ll see see if I can help. Yeah.
April Aramanda: It is obvious that you love helping people and what you have created out of your situation is the same kind of thing I’m trying to do here. I’ve created something out of my situation and I hope that people will reach out. Even if it’s just for a 30 minute,…
April Aramanda: let me just start a process of trying to deal with things. If they never talk to you again, I think that 30 minutes would be worth it. So guys,…
JoBeth Evans: 100%. Thank you.
April Aramanda: I’ll have all her information down in the bottom of the show notes. Please reach out to her and let her know how she can help.
